LinkedIn algorithm - WTF is it and how does it work?

Katie: 00:00:00

LinkedIn is janky as fuck. It is just. It is a piece of shit. It is the worst piece of technology out there in the social media sphere.

Neal: 00:00:10

And now a word from our sponsor, LinkedIn.

Neal: 00:00:13

Welcome to the asylum. LinkedIn will not like this podcast, but you will love it. Behave, LinkedIn lunatics. We have visitors.

Neal: 00:00:31

Oh, boy. The LinkedIn algorithm. Yes, one particularly long standing inmate here at the asylum.

But is it a friend, a foe, or just a delusional figment of our collective imagination? Joining us today on a visit to the asylum are four wonderful people who are going to give us their honest assessment of our resident algorithm.

Each has their own unique take and perspective. We have Katie McManus, a business strategist and money mindset coach, who is also the host of the podcast the Weeniecast.

Link in the description, Fred Koepestake, who is a very traditional sales coach with all the tricks and tips. Michelle J. Raymond, an expert on LinkedIn company pages. Philip Charter, a copywriting coach.

And the wonderful John Aspirian, not only an expert on LinkedIn, but also on running membership groups correctly and ethically. But first, let's set the stage. The LinkedIn algorithm, it's the phantom menace of the social B2B selling world.

It haunts the dreams of content creators, creating nightmares for them when their content flops. It's the digital puppet master pulling all the strings on our very online relevance and existence. What do our visitors think about this very topic?

Who's our first visitor?

Asylum warden: 00:02:05

Sales trainer, Fred Copesday. This

Fred: 00:02:09

whole kind of chasing the algorithm and doing what this thing wants you to do is completely the wrong way of looking at it, isn't it?

It's missing the point of why we're on the platform, full stop. Shouldn't be going well, okay, the algorithm is saying that carousels are going to be dead popular. And I look at my audience and go, they hate it.

People aren't going to sit and swipe through these things and read a ton of stuff. They need 60 second videos. The smart option would be to do 60 second videos.

Even if LinkedIn's saying, well, I'm not going to show it to as many people, no, but just show it to a couple of the people that I want you to show it to because they're the ones which are going to have an effect for me and what I'm trying to do, because that's what they like.

That's the sensible way to look at that, rather than, oh, the algorithm says I've got to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that would be a smart way to look at it.

Neal: 00:02:58

So Fred seems to think that you should go. Glen Coco but is that what all of our visitors think? Well, I think this visitor in particular thinks it's more about quality than quantity.

Asylum warden: 00:03:12

Community membership expert John Esperian Well, I.

Fred: 00:03:15

Think LinkedIn's a big place, right?

It's got more than a billion members and I think for a lot of people it's confusing but also it's a little bit scary to put your thoughts out into the world.

So finding your tribe and finding the small kind of niche pockets where you can maybe open up a little bit more and share what you're really thinking about, what's going on in your business or whatever other challenges you've got, that's really, really powerful.

So finding those small communities is just a case of, you know, vibing with your tribe, whatever you want to call it, but just finding a space of comfort where you can see other like minded people and that gives you a better chance of growing versus comparing yourself with the billion plus members in one hit and then shying away from actually showing up and doing the work because everyone else looks super successful. It's just getting away from that public spotlight, having a bit more privacy and that's where you can, you can grow a bit better.

Neal: 00:04:18

Well, here's you and me putting out our content and trying to figure it all out, understanding what works and what doesn't work and what does work even mean. Even the experts, it seems, struggle to strike the right chord with their ideal viewers, readers and would be customers.

This visitor in particular thinks it's really easy to create content that just bombs.

Asylum warden: 00:04:44

Michelle J. Raymond is a company pages expert.

Michelle: 00:04:48

It happens regularly, you know, and it honestly does, you know, and again, persistency plays out here.

But I've been creating content for around 10 years now and back early days you could get lots of reach and impressions like pretty easily because it wasn't as crowded as what it is now.

And I remember randomly doing this post, I'd just been to the gym and I had my favorite play mix on which I have been listening to the skits mix from number one through to, I think we're up to about 55 now. Like he releases them every year and I've been listening to them every year at the gym.

It's my go to and I was talking about nostalgia and you know, do you have a go to and just the power of that in the post. And I thought this is going to be so cool and other people engage and it literally I think got about 30 impressions.

And I don't often delete posts, but that one, I was like, what's going on here? Delete. I thought it was amazingly brilliant. And it just, you know, and I've got a thousand stories like this.

The fact is, I don't know whether it was my post. I don't know whether LinkedIn was playing around with the algorithm that day.

I don't know if everyone was having the day off around the world and it was a Sunday or a Saturday or whatever.

And they would just say, we've got better things to do, Michelle, than hang out and read your silly posts just because you're inspired and came home from the gym. Like, let's get real here. It could be anything, but we tend to make it personally about us. And the trick is to just go, it's just a post.

Neal: 00:06:21

But what if it's important to change your thinking around this whole algorithm thing? I mean, we already know that the algo is not there to serve you and I, it's there to serve themselves. So how do we best approach that?

Asylum warden: 00:06:38

Katie McManus.

Katie: 00:06:40

For any social media platform, it is in their interest to reward people who are showing up consistently, who are creating content consistently, and who are keeping other people entertained on the platform. Because what happens when they have people who are spending more time on the platform?

They're able to sell more advertising, they're able to make more money, right?

So if your engagement goes down, like, okay, that's fine, that's going to happen from time to time, maybe look at the content you've been sharing, maybe you've been going too heavy on the promotional stuff for your business and it's just a natural occurrence that, like, if you're promoting something to a very small population, but you're not going to get a ton of engagement, you're not going to get a lot of views, maybe like, course correct to be a little more personal for a while, but also if you haven't changed, if you've done like a really solid split where you normally get a lot of engagement on your personal stuff and then get some engagement on your professional stuff, and it's just like there's no rhyme or reason for the algorithm dip. Like, just wait it out, just continue doing what you're doing, you know, because it always corrects itself.

Neal: 00:07:44

Okay, let's imagine it then. We have got it in our heads what we need to do. We're not going to be bitches to the algorithm. We are going to seek to our own ends.

But then LinkedIn just changes their mind on how everything works anyway. What then? Yeah, I get it. It's frustrating.

We're listening to all these people talking about how to just ignore the algorithm and do your own thing, but it's hard. We all need those dopamine hits.

And if the previous episode about engagement pods is anything to go by, then a lot more people are worried about that than let on. But the sensible people, they're all about getting the basics right.

Asylum warden: 00:08:25

This is copywriting coach Philip Charter.

Philip: 00:08:27

I guess the way to do it well is consistency with sort of colors and branding and message. If you can do that, then people can see quite quickly who you are and what you're about and what you stand for.

Uh, so I think that can help also just adopting like a pragmatic approach of every interaction. People want something or don't want something.

So when you connect with someone, there's no need to like write these long messages or do like 50 interactions before you approach someone. Or you have this, a complicated strategy. If I get a connection request, my brain just goes, who's this person? Like, can I get something from them?

What do they want from me? And if it's something which is going to benefit both parties or benefit you, you'll go, yeah, I'll do it. You don't really lose anything.

So having a profile which is clear allows people to make that snap decision. Because I can connect with someone in my niche and they'll just go, who's this guy?

Oh, he probably wants to write for me or he's probably going to try and pitch me something, but I understand who he is and let's hear what it is. Or yeah, he might be useful to me in some way. Like, oh, he looks like he knows what he's talking about. That's what you need.

So I wouldn't get too carried away with personal branding. I guess think of it more as branding than personal. Yes, you want to have lots of personality in your content, but nobody really cares who you are.

They care what you can do for them. So just focus on that.

Neal: 00:10:06

I don't know how long you've been around on LinkedIn, but I certainly remember when I started visiting this crazy establishment, one of the biggest problems was the algorithm's impact on creators and getting their stuff seen. Certainly during the COVID era, when there were more people on the platform paying attention to it, the reach was ever more paramount.

So whenever we saw Richard Van der Blom's so called scientific algorithm updates telling us exactly what we should and shouldn't be Posting in order to tickle the underbelly of that algorithm, we all paid very close attention. Richard is one of many so called LinkedIn professionals on the platform that seem to know how it all works from the inside out.

Unfortunately, thanks to a future guest of the Asylum, Daniel hall, who will be joining me to explain in depth how the engagement pod system works, we've now understood that Richard is probably not someone to pay too much attention to, given that most of his content is amplified by an engagement, by an engagement, by an engagement pod. And as much as he'll try and deny that we have all seen the spreadsheet.

So with that in mind, it probably bodes well for us to pay more attention to the real LinkedIn people, as in those people that spend a lot of time talking to the platform and understanding best practices, not to serve creators, but to serve results. And this person in particular thinks we need to just ignore the algorithm altogether.

Michelle: 00:11:42

Michelle J. Raymond Like I don't think about the LinkedIn algorithm, I don't understand people who are obsessed with it, just don't get the point.

Why don't you become obsessed with learning about what makes your customer tick?

Because when you know that you never have to worry about the algorithm again, when you build strategic communities in your target audience and you nurture relationships. Algorithm? What algorithm? Who cares? You never think about it.

And so yeah, coming back to that, the more you worry about what makes LinkedIn happy, that's less time that you're spending on what makes your customer happy. And that's where too many people fall over on the platform.

Neal: 00:12:23

Okay, okay, we need to ignore the algorithm. I get that loud and clear. But what should we do be focusing on?

It's really so frustrating to hear all these people saying, don't worry about the algorithm, ignore it. It's just a thing, just carry on.

But then we're creatives, many of us at least, that are putting a lot of time into this platform to get our marketing messages out there to be heard, to be seen, to be understood. It's not really that easy when our stuff just seems to tank. It takes a toll on us mentally. So how can we avoid those algorithmic dips?

Katie: 00:13:01

Katie McManus there's no rhyme or reason for the algorithm dip. Like just wait it out, just continue doing what you're doing, you know, because it always corrects itself.

And what you don't want to do is you don't want to give up, you don't want to stop posting, you don't want to, you don't Want to throw your hands up and be like, okay, well, fine, like, I'm not getting in front of anyone. It's just going to be that much harder for you to reenter the platform later and feel confident about your strategy.

You also don't want to change your strategy if your strategy has been working. Keep it up, keep following through on it. I don't play golf. I don't really play any sports really, except for tennis very badly.

But I think of golf because, you know, my cousin's a pro golfer.

You know, he can be working on a swing and he can perfect his swing, but how he plays is going to be very different when he's playing in the sunshine with no wind versus when he's playing in the rain with lots of wind. Like the results of that match, that game that I don't know, what do you call it?

They're going to be different, but it's a factor that's outside of his control.

Asylum warden: 00:14:05

Fred Copestake

Fred: 00:14:07

do one post today. I think that's about right. Again, looking at the algorithm, I'm not saying completely ignore it.

Yes, you'd be crazy not to take into account that there is a thing there which is putting your content out or not. But one post a day, going out, morning my time. Even though it's global market, morning my time.

So again, if there's stuff that's going on, because I do want a conversation with people, actually a public conversation around this stuff is cool because then other people can benefit from that.

But so by consistency, what I mean is that it's a regular once a day type system so that we get to cover those different sorts of posts that I was talking about. I don't think by smashing more stuff out there, you're going to do yourself any good. Unless you're in a pod, that's probably all right. I don't.

Fred: 00:14:51

I would know.

Neal: 00:14:54

Well, there we are, the LinkedIn algorithm. We, I feel, have just touched on the surface of this vast topic in this episode.

I'm sure we'll be revisiting this particular inmate many times in the future, but it gives us a bit of a broad feel of exactly how problematic worrying about the algorithm can be, not only for your mental health, but also for your business goals. Why worry about it? Why let a platform dictate how you create content? What do you think, my fellow asylum visitors?

Have you had your own experience with the LinkedIn algorithm? Go on, whisper your tales of it in my ear.

If that fails, you can always leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or any of the other podcast apps that allow you to leave comments. And that's it for this week's visit to the Asylum. And a big thank you to our visitors for this week.

Jon aspirian, Katie McManus, Fred Kobstake, Michelle J. Raymond, and Philip Charter. And thank you for listening.

Join us for the next episode if you dare, click Follow in your favorite podcast app to make sure you get the next episode of the Asylum in your library.

Michelle: 00:16:15

And when I'm working with my clients, I can remind them we don't judge a book and write a review based on one word. We don't base it on one sentence. We don't even base it on one paragraph. We base it on the whole book.

And so if you think of one post is just one word in the story, and you are building up a story that over the course of a year, two years, three years, that's what people are judging you on. Not one post that crashes and burns.

Fred: 00:16:46

I keep bored of like this is the stuff that's going out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, which is teed up on the Friday before. But they're on like little job cards.

So I'll just write a new one and I'll put it there and I might never use it or I might put it in the next week or I might go, actually no, I'm going to swap that one out for that so it won't get wasted and it sort of gets out of my head and not so frantic. I must go tell everyone this brilliant stuff I've been thinking about because it might not be so brilliant after all.

It might just be me getting triggered by something.

Michelle: 00:17:16

My strategy for my clients, and it's the same one that I follow for myself, is the only thing that I ever ask them to focus on when it comes to what kind of content they should post is always the kind of content that's in service of their audience. In basically what is it that they need? So I don't pay attention to the algorithm, couldn't care less.

I don't care what type of format of content is the best format or what's working better than anything else. Is it polls? Is it carousels? Is it short form video?

Like all of that goes out the window and I always come back and center to what is it that your audience wants in the format that makes the most difference to them.

Katie: 00:18:04

They know your sense of humor, they know the types of stories you tell. So like, even if you're writing a salesy post, you know they're going to want to read it because they appreciate the way you put things.

And when you do write a post that's about their problems or about, you know, what they want more than anything because they just so happen to be your ideal client for them, it feels like you're speaking directly to them.

Asylum warden: 00:18:29

Goodbye. Watch your back, you, and we'll talk to you soon. On another episode of the Asylum.